While we're not quite all the way through the book yet... the chapter presentations have been very well done! So at this point we would like you to answer the two questions below AND comment on at least two postings. You will have until the end of April to complete this assignment.Through the first eight chapters of How to Grade for Learning:
What have you learned?
What needs to change?
I'll be the first lucky over-achiever (and we are still in session) LOL
ReplyDeleteWhat have I learned? I learned that there is so much more to making a grade, which doesn't include behavior, effort, attitude, etc. Also, we are bogging our kids down with too much homework which is proving ineffective...they are copying!!!
What do we need to change? I think we need to go to a district wide grading scale, with clear definitions of what each letter grade consists of, similar to the one on page 75.
What have I learned about grading? I think we may be bogging kids down as Katie mentioned but we are also bogging ourselves down by thinking we have to correct and record everything. I believe that what was discussed in our sessions we are aware of but now I think we can make changes that need to be changed. I am not saying that EVERYTHING has to go but maybe some changes graduall. I agree with Katie that a district wide scale is needed but how will we do that? Which one is the best? I am looking at myself and that is where I would like to start some change. It won't be done tomorrow but I do see where there is room for change.
ReplyDeleteSorry about the typing errors. You get the idea I hope!
ReplyDeleteGrading--a necessary evil perhaps? We discussed that grades are needed for a variety of reasons: communication with parents, college entrance requirements, and the like. I learned that we need to make certain that our grades are appropriate to our students' learning. How we make that happen is going to be a work in progress for us all.
ReplyDeleteWhat have I learned?
ReplyDeleteI've learned more about the staff and our ideas more than I have from just the book. The book of course had all these ideas but meeting as groups, both buildings has allowed us to really exchange ideas and make them applicable to EC. It's made me reflect on my personal grading system and I'm looking forward to tweeking things to fit each learner.
What do we need to change?
We NEED a district wide grading scale and assessment like the one in Appendix 3. There need to be clear expectations for the different types of learning that will be taking place from K-12. I also enjoyed the presentation on Ch. 8 and think the kids should be more involved on their grading. If they know what their expected to do, they should perform!
I have learned that being a kdg. teacher it may be hard to alter my grading system but I can certainly look at each child at the beginning of the year and grade them according to how much they have grown. I do believe that we need to change our report card format in the lower elementary.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Amanda... I learned more from our staff discussion than I did reading the book. I think it was an excellent way to go through the whole book. At first I think we were all a little stressed as to how we were going to present our chapter but in the end, everyone did a great job. It was very helpful.
I learned that I may be at an impasse. Frustrated at being shown whats being done is not great (and agreeing) but recalling from ED classes that grading must be fair, unambiguous, and apply to everyone.
ReplyDeleteDrastic change would give us new worries. No change will keep us pulling our hairs out (label me self destructive) and minor change might make us feel good until someone else looks at it and points out flaws ( I hate to be wrong after having gone out on a limb).
P.S.
ReplyDeleteI would rather talk about a campus beautification program. Have yous seen the dumpster truck driver smirk on a windy day as half his payload flies East while he dumps our trash? That ends up near the river. This is something that needs to change.
Found a blog post on Drape's Takes that I thought was worth sharing. Darren Draper currently serves as the Director or Technology Services for the Canyons School District. It addresses not only the need to change our current assessment system, but how we deliver instruction as well.
ReplyDelete"Our current systems of traditional learning are broken - not only are our assessments flawed, but that the very foundations upon which we have built our schools (societies?) are no longer supportive of the kinds of learning that we (society) now need our students to do.
In other words, not only do we need to change the way we test, but the way we teach - and all this because of the ways that our students can now learn. Is it so wrong now to want our students to prove what they know and can do all by themselves? Apparently so - after all, we now live in a networked world.
No wonder it's taking so long for shift to happen in our schools.
We're talking about colossal shifts here: In schools, in teachers, in assessments, and in attitudes. All because we can (?), and ultimately because we should."
I was always taught that we should grade everything and record it. I didn't know we shouldn't do that. This book has had me question a lot of things about my grading, yet I'm still left with more questions than answers. What do I change and how do I change it? I pretty much agree with everyone else that we need a district wide grading plan. But first I think we need to find out what colleges and universities want and need from our students.
ReplyDeleteWhat this study has done is made me look again at the uneasiness I have with the whole issue of grading. When I have entered the grades in the gradebook, I am pleased as punch to dole out the good grades to the upper level students. Excellent all the way around. But then I agonize over the lower bunch because every C, C-, D, or F says something different in each case. One student may have a complete lack of understanding, another may have "kissed it off", another may have been absent too much during the lesson, another may have dragged too slowly, and when he/she needed to put in the final effort, the task was mountainous and unattainable. For those I agonize because the grade does not communicate the big picture to them or their parents. It just says below average or failing.
ReplyDeleteIn my Utopean world of grading I wish I could meet with every student, routinely, in conference, go over their work. Make concrete observations together. Make a plan for improvement, make a plan for enhanced learning. Move ahead the goal, always move ahead.
But time and the masses dictate a grade every so often so parents can look at JMC and know how their kid is doing. And teachers can keep a record that shows if students are keeping up to assignments. A lot is lost in translation there.
Therefore, what this book has taught me is that my feelings are pretty right on. The book doesn't have the answers either, only the questions we've all been wrestling with for a long time.
Change: What we grade, how much we grade. Rethink to: assessments that match our learning goals for the lesson taught, --rather than assessment for its own sake as a daily/weekly mark in the red gradebook.
Sorry I posted such a long one. It never seems that long when I write it. I agree with Anton on the campus beautification. To get going on a Ron Clark type change, it needs to be VISUAL first and foremost. Catchy, visual, hip things. Inside and out. Think, think, think.
ReplyDeleteBrenda had quite a quote there. "...not only are our assessments flawed, but that the very foundations upon which we have built our schools (societies?) are no longer supportive of the kinds of learning that we (society) now need our students to do.
ReplyDeleteIn plain English, buying into this thought, what is there about schools today that we should keep, i.e. what should our students know? Should our middle school curriculum be a sampling of every basic subject from math to p.e.? Then break that down to classes themselves, should we be teaching Jack London or the Civil War?
We must be very careful I think discerning what is important for the "future", lest we lose something inherently valuable. We must always evaluate, but we must do it with great wisdom and care. Yoda has spoken.
I have learned that most teachers seem to be struggling as much as I do with grading and homework. Some may say we don't need to grade everything, but then I feel that if I'm not going to grade it, why assign it?
ReplyDeleteChange is hard for all of us. I have changed my teaching and grading quite a bit in the last couple of years. I use less homework and more projects and short quizzes, which I feel is what most colleges do. As we all know, if a worksheet is assigned or something similar, it will certainly be copied. I have also tried to do a better job of aligning my teaching to fit the assessment, instead of the other way around as I used to do. I am having a lot more success that way as are the students.
It sounds as though many of you are for a school wide assessment of some kind. I think having the same grading scale might be a good idea. I think all teachers had the same scale when I was in school. When I hear students complain about so and so's grading scale, I relate to them the difficulty of the scale we had in school. They seem about as impressed as we were when being told by our elders how they walked to school for miles. Anyway, beyond the scale though I don't think much could be the same. What I see as important in language is not going to be the same as someone else sees with their course. The author of our book did not think participation should be part of the grade. I disagree. In my class I view participation as an important part of the grade. If a student cannot participate in the language, it will not become part of their life-long learning.
I agree with Kari and others who would like to hear from colleges about what they see as important. Maybe we could incorporate more of what they see as important if we knew what those things were.
I really enjoyed hearing about the Ron Clark Academy and would be interested in accompanying another group if one visits again.
I agree with Draper “not only do we need to change the way we test, but the way we teach - and all this because of the ways that our students can now learn.” But I also agree with Brenda, shouldn’t assessment should be, to a large extent, what students show they can do on their own? The learning environment now needs to include technology, which it does not in most schools that are behind in classroom-available technology. I need more than I have
ReplyDeletein my classroom. If we really want students to do most tasks on the web, the old computers I have just don’t cut it. However, I have been using computers more extensively in my classroom this year than last and the year before that, so I guess we need to be sure we are making the technology available in our classrooms so students can be comfortable being on them from day 1, more in service for teachers so they are comfortable providing support, and more computers in the classroom. It doesn’t make sense for me that we don’t provide better technology across the board so all students, not just those in some neighborhoods, have better access to technology.
I agree with Sherri that participation must be considered a part of some course grades. How else
ReplyDeleteis she going to judge if someone is learning to speak the language if not participating. With
elementary students, it is different in that one
has to work with the student building them up by asking them questions you know they can respond to.
I just keep wording the question non-threateningly
until I get some response and then praise. However, there are some students, even at 2nd grade that won't participate because they are not willing to cooperate. I still grade them by separating participation from academics. Every grade level should have a place to comment about every subject. In elementary, it just comes one or two places, so we need a place to grade effort and behavior in each subject area.
I really enjoyed the class and everyone's comments. I have evolved in my grading some, but O'Connor really brings home several ideas that have impressed me in my perception of grading. First that using formative assessment (a lot) helps low achievers. Second, that if we can somehow include students in forming the assessment, the process becomes less threatening to them. Last, teaching students that embracing their mistakes can be used as an index of what still needs to be learned. These all take some extra effort from the teacher, but it also puts some responsibility on the students. Although I feel my ideas about assessment have already evolved in positive ways during my 34 years of teaching, I still need to keep these three ideas in mind as I assess my students today. For example, I have a hard time giving my struggling students the Unit Tests in reading because they are so long and involve so many reading skills they do not have. The weekly tests are only 10 questions and I feel if my students do well on those, not only have they paid attention, but I have done a good job teaching the story and vocabulary. My teaching is reflected in their ability to well on that test and I feel I can really sink my teeth into helping them at that level. Rich discussion and further work on vocabulary in class pays off. With those students I cannot assume they are going to pick up anything on their own. I must "discuss it out of them!" That makes me feel good as well. I just wonder how can I do that in all of my subjects?
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed our classes. I always learn something new from my peers.
ReplyDeleteI think that Page 28, Case Study One, is the most difficult aspect of grading for me. It has to do with the impact of receiving a "0" on an activity due to not turning work in when class is missed. That "0" also may represent not being responsible, as well. So, what should we do?
Maybe, by conveying our grading expectations to parents and the students is the answer. Even though a "0" for unfinished work does not represent skills acquired, it does say something about being responsible, at least at the Middle School level. Responsibility is part of every day life, at home and at school.
Mr. Gray was right, when he said the book would not give us answers to all the questions that would surface.
I agree with Kari. I was left with more questions than answers. That can be a good thing though. It must just mean that aspects of our grading do need to be fixed
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Anton on the High School yard. It is covered with garbage. I walk the area each day. Maybe Earth Day is the answer. The students can go out and clean up what they have messed up.
ReplyDeleteI think since we have taken this class we have raised more questions and what do we do with all the new information we have learned. How do you grade children with limited abilities who are working at their potential while others are just getting by and not using their ability. If we went to a district wide grading scale would that apply to the lower elem.? I can see much growth with the students I have plus I have the luxury of monitoring them 1:1 everyday. That is not possible in the regular classroom. I found the seven perspectives very interesting and can agree with all of them so how do we use grades in the classroom? I think we will just keep going around in circles............
ReplyDeleteGrading and reporting to parents (report cards) have always been a topic of discussion at the lower elementary level. For a long time we have wanted to update our report cards to make them relevant to parents. We just need some work time to get together and work! Maybe since we have spent some time on this subject, we can now implement what we have discussed and learned. Are our in service topics for next year already decided, or can we free teachers maybe the last hour of the day to work on this? I will have to say that I am not for a district wide grading scale as K-2 does not give letter grades. I believe it would be more relevant for us have of a "check list" at our level...not letter grades.
ReplyDeleteI know this sounds like a broken record, but I too have more questions than answers. I would love to conference all students on a daily basis regarding their progress in both reading their book and what they have produced in writing. I have never really been able to finesse conferences within the classroom structure. Either the student is uncomfortable with everyone listening or the class sees this as "free time". If I did conferences, could I skip the grade? Then what would the school or parents use for evaluation?
ReplyDeleteI agree with a school wide grading system, but I have been through so many curriculum meetings where we could not come up with a consensus K-12. What about setting up a quarter rubric of goals and progress, and not grade individual tests/activities/projects until the end of the quarter?
I agree with Amanda that for any of this change to occur, we need to be a more cohesive faculty. I appreciate these postings, because I can have a feel where everyone else is in this quest for education. I am not sure how we became so distant between grade levels and between school buildings. I am sure one reason is that as we squeeze more and more into our individual teaching responsibilities, such things as exchange of ideas is a luxury.
ReplyDeleteI learned that as much as we think we know about our grading philosophy, there are many other determining factors and ideas that may help us better qualify a student's letter grade. In a nut shell..... what needs to be assessed? How should that assessment reflect the total grade and does it accurately measure what was taught or what our goals were. I think that we do not need to grade everything, but I do think we should grade many things that lead to the formal assessment for everybody's records. It also lets all know how the progress is coming along. Thanks
ReplyDeleteRick Meisner
Angie:
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about the question of issuing a zero grade for homework. It seems that homework can be an extension of what you taught, a chance to practice the information, and it can be used to determine work ethic, and motivation. I agree that students should be held accountable for certain types of homework. If we do not grade many homework assignments the motivation to work may be very low. Teaching work ethic skills is just part of the reason homework should be graded and accounted for. I liked your perspective on that.
Recently, Mr. Green and I had students who were serving lunch detention help clean up outside on the school grounds. This was a very good experience because the students gained an appreciation for a job well done. Their reward was to have part of their remaining time taken off. Some students even wanted to stay outside and work longer. Some students went above and beyond what was asked. In correlation to student grading, I think I have learned that if you keep kids accountable yet have them help set criteria for the grading or rubric, they will respect the idea of working hard, and fulfilling tasks that they have a shared responsibility in. This goes for instruction also. I have always felt that I needed to be doing all the teaching and discussing. Now, I have students help prepare mini lessons that go along with the major theme. It takes more pressure off the instructor and it gives them more accountability and say in their learning. This class has made me look at various ideas not on only how to grade, but what should be graded, and how the material can be covered that you want to assess at a later time.
ReplyDeleteWhat have I learned? The book was interesting and at times hard to follow because in preschool we only can do informal assessing and anecdotal notetaking. We don't do grades but we do checklists that fall under a developmental continuum. Each child may be at a different level and it is our job to figure out their learning style and take them from where they are and move them up on the continuum to get them ready for Kindergarten. (We do alot of individualized instruction but it seems like we see so many more successes than the old way of teaching preschool (worksheets, teacher directed and teacher prepped activities, and lots of structure). Anyway, back to the question: What did I learn? I learned that most teachers in the school system are eager to change the current way of grading but more time and collaboration are necessary to make it a successful and valuable transition.
ReplyDeleteLittle bit off this topic but a topic of one of our other inservices: Ron Clark. If the 4th grade have been working on some of the Ron Clark rules, I have heard the children talking about them as a teacher and as a parent. The 3rd-5th graders who come into my room every day at 3:15 have been talking about it and I have been listening in. I don't think that they know that I know what they are talking about. It is very interesting! They seem very intrigued in the concepts: saying thank you within 3 seconds, not complaining (this was a hot topic one day!). I think the most important thing is that the children are listening and talking about it. As a parent, my son (at times) just seems more polite at home. I get thanked more often. Now I don't know if after years and years of reminding him that it finally is sinking in or since it is coming from his teachers he now gets it! Either way it is a good thing.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Brenda said that not only do we need to change the way we assess but also the way the instruction is given. It is and has been a very hard transition to make. We were forced into the transition by the Department of Human services to start making changes in the preschool and child care programs about 8 years ago and I am still learning about it everyday. She is right, it is a colossal change but hopefully it is the right change. I am always willing to try anything but the only thing that scares me is - are we swinging on the pendulum and in 8 years will it swing back to traditional teaching? Just something that I have pondered.
ReplyDeleteI have learned a lot...
ReplyDeletehow to blog
grades raise lots and lots of questions to which
it seems there is not an easy answer
how to blog
good discussions on what should be included in
grades and what shouldn't be included
it's fun to work in a group when you have people
who care as much about doing a good job in
presenting as I do (what about the kids who get
put in a group with others that don't care!)
how to blog
a lot of people seem to be frustrated and care
enough to want to change grading for the good
of the kids and not just for their convenience
as I've seen with my own children from time to
time
from a parent's point of view--your child's grade
can be a few letters lower simply because the
teacher hasn't had time to get everyone's grade
entered for the on-line grading---yes, a zero
makes a world of difference...2 can make an
even bigger difference!!!
how to blog
that I am glad I do not have to grade all the
homework, writing assignments, etc. and
consider late work, cheating, do-overs, special
circumstances for grades
how to get to this site and actually post a
comment
Change that needed...
I really feel that we need to change our report
card. I would like to see more of a checklist
format in the lower elementary. I do not see
how a district wide grading system with letter
grades would work for the lower grades. It
is obvious that everyone would like a change
in the way we report student progress.
I agree with all the lower elem level teachers... we need a check list for each grade K-2. I think most parents want to feel as though their child is getting graded based on their individual performance. I know I especially like to read the comments portion of their report card, even if it is a generic comment chosen from a list of comments. This give me more "in-sight" into their lives at school. At the kindergarten level I have always felt that the parents are especially curious about what kind of person their child will become! I would love to come up with some way to individualize our report card. Perhaps just including a section on "strengths" and "weaknesses." I don't see why all levels K-12 couldn't include this. It would be interesting to come up with a large list of generic strengths and weaknesses. I know that at report card time when I start writing comments I get into a rut and repeat myself. Maybe GMC grading has something like that already?!
ReplyDeleteI agree with several comments (like Julie and Renee) about needing time as a staff to sit down and really look at what we want for a report card.
ReplyDeleteThe last time we collected report card samples from lots of schools and tried to combine some ideas.
We could do that again and come up with a list of our own about the format and content of reporting progress to parents. I would really like to see a checklist for part of it with a place for individual comments specific to each child. I like the personal touch!
Sherri said that if we aren't going to grade it, then why assign it? I know seeing my own children go through elem., middle, and high school, with some of their assignments, I truly struggled with what was the point in having them go through everything they did with the requirements of the assignment and never get it back or never find out how they did on it--from interviewing someone & writing up a whole report about it to researching something & reporting on it to some quick short assignments in a class.
ReplyDeleteI like to get feedback on things that I do, partly so that I know how I can improve and part of me just wants a pat on the back now and then! I know that I don't have the hours of grading those assignments (in Kindergarten it takes hours of getting hands on things ready for kids to work on!), but I do agree that if you aren't going to grade them, the students must feel like---why are we being assigned this? I think there is a certain amount of practice that is important (and these should not be big, time consuming projects), but the students need to know that is why they are doing it and some kind of feedback--even if it's a checkmark that it is completed.
This is a test.
ReplyDeleteThis study has been thought provoking, with an emphasis on the word provoking. However, it is often good to ruminate on ideas that are too big to digest in one sitting, or for only a short time. Since grading has been around for a long time, the analysis of it and development of new means to do it should take awhile.
ReplyDeleteOften the author discussed a subject and put words to some of my unspoken reservations about grading.
Elementary to this whole process for me will be the establishing of our standards. We have worked on these in one form or another ever since I started teaching at East Central. This would be the logical starting place to establish whether a student has mastered the subject, or still needs work on it. This seems like one of the foundational tasks to accomplish as we try to use the ideas we have studied.
Responding to Amanda: I agree that the Appendix 3 might have some very helpful guidelines to give consistency within our district. It always makes me feel less threatened to start a new path when someone has put some markers along the way that I can follow. Appendix 3 has some such markers.
Responding to Rae Ann: Students do seem to enjoy, even be good at, helping to set assessment, or evaluation criteria. The 2nd grade music class, divided into dancers and observers, came up with good comments for each other. They stayed engaged over several run-throughs, and seemed reluctant to end the activity. I hope I can devise more opportunities for this kind of student input.
I have to agree with Mr. Green and Mr. Meisner on a few ideas.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, since I have been at EC (four short years now) I have seen a few changes to better our student's morale (Model UN, Drama Trip, Student Council, fresh paint in the hallways) but there needs to be lots more (hence, what I am trying to do with the after school mentoring program).
Not only are we failing them in course loads when they come from the middle school, but we also, in some instances, are failing them in school pride. Most of our students realize that we are not a very athletic school as a whole, but are fortunate enough to be able to send kids to NE who are inclined to take part.
I have heard more than once that we need a recycling program here. I would like to see a bike rack out front, so that they are not strewn about, and possibly a sign that says that we are here. The middle school building has all three.
We are a very creatively gifted community, and the kids are willing to try anything that means using their knack for inventing something extraordinary, just give them the ball (of star dust to make it a reality).
As a person who is constantly searching for lateral-thinking lesson ideas, and new ways to teach them, I am constantly bombarded with, "okay, now how do I grade this to be fair to all?" This is is trying to reinvent the wheel. It's already been done and there's not much we can do to make it better.
Truthfully, there is no right or wrong. That is what I've learned. As long as we are as fair as we can be and let the little things count for small points, as the students progress and learn, and then a larger grade for finalization of a unit, their grades and their emotional morale will sky rocket.
We have been told to teach to the test, but the reality is that more and more students are coming to us who are less inclined to perform well at their standards. I, myself, am a divergent thinker and do not test well, but I'm creative and can think on my feet. Most of our students are that way too.
I see it in the elementary students, but they have lost that creative, outside-the-box thought process by the time I get them in high school again (but, next year will hopefully be different, since I'll see my first year teaching's fifth graders as ninth graders).
Do I have all the answers? Absolutely not, but I could talk your ear off if given the chance.
****My answer is this: As long as we are unafraid to work together, to link up our studies, and to try new things on a spur-of-the-moment, our kids will retain more and be better, happier individuals...but, who knows. Smile at them and they'll smile back. Expect them to achieve nothing and that's exactly what they'll be.
I love the idea of a checklist, rather than a grading scale. I questioned if it could be so easy as putting all standards and benchmarks in a checklist format in JMC/Mac Files. Then you would go find the grade level/content area that applies to the student and check away rather than crunching numbers. That way you can see where the weaknesses are and what needs to be worked on. A D on a report card could be the result of incomplete assignments that were not turned in, yet the student may have mastered each standard and benchmark. I feel this would be very beneficial for special ed students who already have an individual plan established with standards and benchmarks noted on IEPs, rather than assigning a letter grade to them. We already know the student is below average (hence an IEP), do I need to a letter grade to tell the parents that?
ReplyDeleteCommenting on Sherri and Connie's loop: Why assign it if I am not going to grade it? In addition to Connie I love getting feedback on what I have done, whether it be an observation or helping organize Dr. Seuss week. I want to know if I have done something right or if there is something I need to improve upon. If I go to the effort of doing something than I want it to be recognized and noted. I feel the same is true with students. If they go through the effort of completing an assignment I assigned, then I should make the effort to provide feedback. I feel the issue is not to assign so much, however make it worthwhile and beneficial to the learning. Don't bog down students with meaningless time fillers that contribute nothing to their wealth of knowledge. We should be engaging our students daily in meaningful lessons in which we can assess them informally so that when we give them the formal assessment they can demonstrate what they have learned and what they need to continue to improve upon.
ReplyDeleteWe are watching a video on Creativity in 7th TAG class. I am requiring them to take notes so we review, since it uses key words to express ideas for revving up your creative juices. One of the suggestions was to look deep into "Your Well of Remembrances" to make connections, ie with the word "gold." Then brainstorm all the ways/things you can connect with this word or concept.
ReplyDeleteIt occurs to me that we should be giving students lots of experiences that will help fill their "well of remembrances" so they do have connections to make. I would think these would rarely be the kind of thing to carry a heavy weight of grade--but certainly worth doing.
I agree with Katie that a checklist with all of the standards and benchmarks would be beneficial. We really should be measuring what the kids have learned in other forms than A, B, C, or D. I know it would be nearly impossible, but it would be nice if every student had some kind of plan that followed them from year to year that measured their strenths and weaknesses like it is done in IEPs and whether or not they mastered the standards and benchmarks.
ReplyDeleteTo Renee: Sitting with the faculty to come up with a cohesive grading scale, rubric, what have you, would benefit our district greatly. Maybe it's not something we jump into wholeheartedly but perhaps in addition to grades at first. The only way grades are ever going to change though, is if it's across the board.
ReplyDeleteTo Glenda: I understand what you're saying about the confusion of having something that is district wide. Sitting in a lot of these meetings as a special education teacher, I think to myself how much of what we are talking about doesn't apply to me. And I'm sure a checklist for Kindergarten wouldn't apply to Seniors. I could try to think of an answer for that right now but I can't. I guess that's for another in-service.
Julie-I have questioned the exact same thing myself. As teachers we are forced to jump on the bandwagon that is popular at the time because something hasn't worked in the past only to find out that what we are doing now isn't effective either. I wonder sometimes if we can take the best things from these different philosophies and combine them into one new philosophy. I think as long as society and home lives continue to change this will continue to happen. The kids we see in school everyday are not the same type of students we were in school. The typical household from 30 years ago is not the typical household today. I don't think there is a quick fix for education but we need to do something.
ReplyDeleteI have learned that everyone seems to be experiencing pretty much the same frustration with grading that I am. I believe that we do need to change our teaching strategies to meet the needs of our students and when we change our strategies, we need to change our grading practices.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone that we need to involve our students in planning what we teach and how we will grade it. When they are actively involved in the planning process, they are more likely to be accountable for the work--I hope.
I agree with Renee's idea of K-2 having a checklist for grading. I would like the checklist to reflect standards and benchmarks.
Julie and Katie, I really wonder about the bandwagon, too. It seems that many of the same ideas keep coming around, but with a different name attached to it or a different guru presenting it. If it didn't work the first time, will it work with a different name attached to it?
Personally, I need to work on trying new teaching strategies in my classroom that will entice my students into learning. I am signing up for a class this summer on instructional strategies that are proven to have a major impact on student achievement. I hope it works! I am already having problems getting second graders to care about school and learning. Each year gets worse. If anyone has ideas, please share!
I learned from our discussions that most of us probably could update our grading practices to reflect our actual teaching, make our requirements more readily understandable and available to our students and their parents, and try to be fair across the board with our students. I also learned that I have a long way to go to achieve these results. Many of the points brought up in these discussions were valid for all of us.
ReplyDeleteAs for the changes to be made, I think we're going to need to be on the same page school wide to try for some standardization, but also need to take into account that all classes are different, and a very rigid, all encompasing plan for grading may turn out to be a something like nclb-unworkable because of that rigidity.
Laurel's comments made me think about trying to take some of the subjectivity out of my grading to better accomodate the student's knowledge of my requirements. I think this is my most difficult task, as music is a very subjective regimen, and some of the criteria I use is not easily quantifiable. I would rather have students miss a few notes, yet retain the spirit and feeling of the music (hard to put a number on) instead of shooting for the goal of technical perfection. I believe the students understand this in principal, but sometimes the missed notes are the focus for them.
I can appreciate Mr. Green's comments on changing our grading system. A system wide revamping needs to have us sit down and come to some consensus first and trying to ensure that each class' differences don't get lost in rigid requirements akin to nclb.
Laura - I certainly have no magic answers, but it sounds to me like you're on the right track already. By allowing your students to choose what they want to learn within the realm of our curriculum, you're well on your way to a student centered classroom (if you're not already there!). Our learners have definitely changed how they learn. Lecture, text, test, just doesn't cut it in the digital world our students live in.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the lower elem. needs checklists that would pertain to the standards and benchmarks. Each grade level would have to agree on what they would include as a standard with each skill being observed. Teachers need time to sit down together and work on this so that we can get the checklist up and running. We all agree something needs to be done and now is the time to get started so children and parents know what is expected with each child.
ReplyDeleteto Christine's comment about the 2nd graders and the assessment and evaluation process. That is fine sometimes with some groups. I see some real set backs for that in my group (I do realize I will not have them forever) but there are other groups just like them. If a child is not very well liked then no matter what that child does the others are going to be critical of his/her actions. Then all that becomes a popularity contest. They need to be guided then so much is it truly their own assessment.
ReplyDeleteJoanie - if you get a chance, check out the Essential Concepts and/or Skills for Grades K-2 for the different disciplines on the http://www.corecurriculum.iowa.gov website. It lists what's coming with the Iowa Core Curriculum. That may be of help when you're designing your checklists.
ReplyDeleteWhat I have learned? I have learned how to blog and how to help students with power point presentations. Yeah! When I have time I find it enjoyable to read other blogs especially when they give information on good web sites or practical resources and or strategies that I could try with my students. I am always searching for strategies that others have tried and make comments on. Blogging makes the search for information a whole lot easier and quicker. However, reading others blogs can become time consuming as well, especially when they talk about their "day". After all, haven't we all had those days with students and or parents?
ReplyDeleteWhat would I change? Like most of the lower elementary teachers I would love to see the grading scale changed to a checklist which includes the standards and benchmarks for each grade level. I have always questioned why I have to fill out a report card on my students whom are often performing 2 or 3 grade levels below their peers. For example what does a B or C on a third grade report card mean to someone who is being instructed at the first grade level? We end up marking "below grade level" all over the reports cards for areas they receive special education services in or we put "X" which means not assessed or does not apply on some of the other reports cards. I am some what embarrassed to hand reports card to parents with all these markings that just tells them their child is below grade level. Something they already know from the IEP! I vote for a checklist where strengths and weaknesses can be monitored more closely and will definitely be easier for students and parents to understand.
Just assuming I'm the last one and It is going to be short and to the point!! I learned not to deduct point for late work. My only problem with this is they often turn in homework several week late and it takes time to get the keys back out.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mr. Green that the campus needs to look better - I think we need to paint the crows nest and the hotel with Raider mascot and Raider pride stuff.
I also agree with Me Meisner on we need to motivate the students and if it involves going outside greta!!
This is my second time I lost the first one!! I learned not to take off points for late assignments. My problem is it takes a lot longer to grade these late papers - I have to locate the keys and remember the questions all over!!
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mr. Green on getting the campus to look better may improve students attitude. I would like to paint the crows nest and hotel for baseball.
I also agree with Mr Merisner that student who get out and about will work better and get better grades
What have I learned? Well, one thing is for sure, there isn't an easy answer to grading. I still have many unanswered questions about grading. I feel that if I have my students do an assignment, I should grade it. Why have them do it if I'm not going to grade it? I understand that certain things we grade are unnecessary. These types of things are assignments that the students have taken home. We don't know how much help the students had from parents or others. Some parents just give their children answers and the students may get a great grade on the assignment, but when it comes time for the test, they get a poor grade. Another thing I have learned is how to blog. Before doing this teacher quality, I had no idea about blogging. I sure can't find much extra time in my day to actually blog, but it is a good idea.
ReplyDeleteWhat would I change? I know that I don't need to grade every little thing that the students do. I can see why some of the daily work I have them do should just be for practice and the tests should then be graded. Technology should be used more. The only problem with that is the computers we use never seem to work. I have done a few things with my students this year and we haven't been able to get all of the computers to work at once. This results in spending way too much time on the technology project. Another thing that I would like to see is more time to collaborate with other teachers. It's nice to be able to talk to each other and bounce ideas off of each other. Some of the staff knows way more about technology than I do, and it would be nice to have the time to be shown some of the things that I don't know how to do.
You are not the last blogger, Mr. Garien, but I might be! Over the course of our book study I feel like I learned a lot about assessment and the EC staff. It is nice to have inservices where the staff interacts with one another. In terms of assessment, the idea of not having to grade everything is liberating especially as I spent most of the week checking documentation in the seniors' final research papers.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Katie's first post about having a district wide grading scale. It's hard for students to understand why an A in one person's class is a 90% and above, and in someone else's class an A is 95% and above. I'm not sure I undertand why this is possible. With my third and/or fourth graders I use the standard 90, 80, 70, 60 grading scale. I do break those numbers down into + and -. It just would be nice for all of us to be on the same page with our grading scales.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with Julie's post about kids being more polite. After our inservice on the Ron Clark Academy, I went back to my fourth graders and told them some of the things we had learned that day. Even know I find them being more polite in their actions. Especially saying thank you when they have received something. It sure is fun to hear some of the students talk about the things that we are trying to teach them. My goal for next year is to implement more of the Ron Clark rules. They make a lot of sense and it's obvious that some of our students aren't learning basic rules at home, so we have to be the teachers of those things too.
ReplyDeleteI really wanted to wait until 11:59 PM to post, but I am too worn out to do something that NO ONE cares about anyway! I have procrastinated for 2 reasons: 1. I am not yet finished with my colossal music history student-led "experiment" and value their feedback as to MY work with this grading (or lack thereof)system. 2. I am in the middle of reading two books that are redefining so much of my teaching "Enhancing Teaching and Learning" written by one of my profs at Iowa (Jean Donham) and "What Does It Mean to Be Well Educated: and More Essays on Standards, Grading, and Other Follies" by my new favorite ed. author Alfie Kohn. The good/bad news is that with all the blogs, articles, and books I have been reading, I cannot tell you what I specifically learned from our meetings and the text. I do know I have assessed my ability to get info to students and which techniques help kids remember where to find information and make connections with prior knowledge. The most important thing I now verbalize is that creating opportunites for authentic inquiry requires that the students be curious and generate their OWN questions.
ReplyDeleteI feel that we, as a faculty, are attempting to create some major shifts both in our individual teaching methods and probably more importantly... as a staff. As we use more information acquired from the core curriculum model, grading will perhaps become easier for us with the use of rubrics available on the site listed by Brenda above.
It is no surprise that I agree with Jer's assessment of the grading process in music ed. He has eloquently stated my feelings regarding
the subjectivity inherent in the system. Well-stated Mr. Creger... and happy early may day birthday.
What have I learned? I learned that grading is not clear cut. I am not sure yet what the correct way is to grade. Especially with needing letter grades, grade points for like national honor society, for honor roll in most cases and for college entrance. How long do we wait for students to get late work in? Until the end of the quarter? After finishing an entire next unit?Aren't we also to be teaching life skills like be responsible and getting work done on time?
ReplyDeleteWe have been using percents for different grading scales. Rubics still make giving a letter grade on work difficult. The state uses basic skills tests to determine how well a school is doing, but are teachers suppose to test and then reteach and test again while the state uses basics skills as a major means of telling if a school,s students are proficient. I keep changing teaching methods with more hands on projects. I will keep trying to find the best method/methods in grading/assessing student learning.
I agree with Jerry that we need to come up with a standardize grading scale or system for grading at the middle school/high school together at EC.
I agree with Angie and Rick that homework is an extension of the learning that takes place in the classroom and that if it is not graded students will probably not do the work and not experienct the learning expected. I had a high school math teacher that only graded quizes and tests with the homework used as a means to prepare students for what college was like. I had set a goal to go to college so doing the homework to prepare for tests wasn't a problem for me. I am not sure whether midddle school students could handle this. Also some students are not good quiz or test takers so having their grade depend solely on them might be a concern.
All there seems to be is more questions over homework and grading.
Tales from the student side... A couple 8th track boys and one 7th grade girl ask me every day if their grade has gone up with the last assignment they turned in. I say, look it up online. So they do, all day long...They're watching point by point to get the D to a D+ to a C- like watching the stock market. They'll be overjoyed if it happens. Of the three, 2 are actively trying to raise grades. The other one looks at it like a gambler...is today my lucky day? Will I pass the test?
ReplyDeleteReality check: A whole student population out there are not into the "intrinsic" rewards of learning. They raise grades when the pressure is on, or they want to get parents off their back; others want to play sports. It thrills me to the core, actually, no matter what the motive, when they care about their grades.
Does it matter that we live in two different worlds? As long as we improve our assessments, and they improve their scores on those assessments? My little heart goes pitter patter when a "D" kid gives the biggest "yahoooo!" in Redneck County over a C- so he doesn't have to run an extra mile at practice.
Jennifer S. and I struggled A LOT this year with grading our two students. Not that I haven't noticed in the past how our grading system does not fit with our special needs students, it's just that it wasn't even in the ballpark this year! There isn't much to mark on a First Grade report card for students who aren't even at a Kindergarten level. I share in Jennifer's frustration and hope that if we go to a checklist, which it seems that's where K-2 would like to go, it will make her life easier!
ReplyDeleteDebb says...
ReplyDeleteWhat have I learned?
I believe I am left with more questions than answers. Throughout this book study I have questioned myself about what should truly be put in the gradebook. I continue to think about this. Currently, I have been using penciled in grades of all assignments that I consider to be "practice." These would be things that they are trying for a first or second time type of thing. (A formative assessment) This gives me information about what they are learning and if I have done a decent job of teaching or need to change my methods. After several "practice" assignments, I give a review page or summative assesment. This assessment is the one I use that counts towards their actual "grade." This tells me whether they actually learned the skill or whether they were just able to do it on the day it was taught. These I mark in red in the gradebook. I have always given students the opportunity to "fix" papers that they didn't perform well on for a half point for each fixed question. I figure that the goal is learning, not doling out grades. If they need some one-on-one time or reteaching time to understand the concept, I give up my time to help out. The summative assessment tells me what they can do on their own. Even though this counts towards their final grade, I have started allowing students who didn't do well to fix these for half point credit for each question as well. I have wondered if I should do this or not??? I am trying to keep in mind that there are several summative assesments along the way to the final big assessment. The goal is still the same. Students need to LEARN! They should be given more chances if necessary to learn. Some students understand concepts easily or within a short period of time. Other students may process slower. We need to allow for these differences in learning.
I have learned that grading is not perfect and never will be. We need to really THINK about what is important to learn, how do our modern day tech students really learn, and how do we reach the learning goals together? It was nice to hear so many perspectives about teaching, learning, grading, and assessing. Everyone had some "food for thought."
What needs to change?
I think that we need to rethink our grading scales at each level K-2, 3-5, 6-8, and 9-12. I am not sure that a K-12 grading scale that is the same would really work well for all levels. We need TIME to collaborate about what the grading scales should look like and why.
Personally, I think that we should use a checklist as well even at the 3-5 level. It really tells a parent much more about how their child is doing in school, areas of strength, and areas of weakness.
Reply to Jennifer S:
I agree that a checklist is a more reasonable tool to use. It shows the standards and benchmarks on them. Parents would be better informed about the areas that are strong and weak. I have often wrestled with using letter grades with SCI students. Do we really need to keep telling a parent that their child is below grade level??? DUH! They pretty much figured that out when they saw the IEP and the mountains of paperwork that go along with that. We need to give those SCI students a reason to feel good about the accomplishments that they are having in school.
Reply to Julie:
I love the format that PK uses for "report cards." It is a checklist of skills in different areas of development. As a parent and educator, it told me a LOT about what was happening in school and the next goals for MY child. I agree that checklists and comments are much more helpful than a "grade." At the end of each semester I take the time to type comment cards. They are usually about a page in length for each child. Yes, it is time consuming. I feel that parents have a much better understanding of their child's strengths and areas that need improvement. It would be easier to blow them off and not do them. I guess I just see the value in them. This is especially true when students transfer in or out of the district. I love it when there are comments in a file of a new student. This tells me way more than A,B,C,D or a small check mark on a report card box ever will!
To all:
Thanks for your input! Anyone who wants to teach me to be more of a techno person, bring it on. Anyone know of some good technology classes being offered this summer?
Learning how to blog was big for me as well as learning how to create a wiki space. I've enjoyed looking at other faculty members' sites and I hope next year to really have a good wiki! Again, it's finding the time to blog and work on the wiki that is keeping me from doing everything I would like in this area. I'm hoping to work on this over the summer so that maybe by fall I can work blogging and keeping up with the wiki on a regular basis. It's a goal and we'll see if I can reach it!
ReplyDeleteI will have to say that I think all of us PreK-12 communicating together during in-service or blogging, is a real strength for our district. I can't imagine this happening with a larger district. Hang in there, everyone. Only 19 days to go!
What I learned
ReplyDelete· Different ways of grading.
· Different subjects and teaching methods require different grading philosophy.
· A way to develop a rubric grading scale (teacher/student created)
· Grading must be related to standards of a subject area.
· The importance of a second chance to show the leaning success (we all have bad days when we perform not as well as our usual)
· The importance of separation of behavior and academic performance grades (behavior issues must not influence the grade on the student’s academic performance)
· Great negative influence of a zero in the grade book.
· Various ways of assessing student’s learning.
……
What needs to be changed
My plan for future:
· Create all tests and quizzes myself (not from teachers addition) so they correspond to the standards of our curriculum. This way I can report to a parent more directly in which areas student has strong knowledge and which have weaknesses.
· I want to implement more lessons in quadrants A and C (now we learn in B and then move to A because kids don’t make enough connections with basics)
· I will continue to make 2/3-week behavior reports to let parents know about student’s problems in class, so they are not surprised by great changes in grades (most of the time behavior influences academic performance).
· I will continue to give students an opportunity to take tests over. It is time consuming for me because every test has to be different from the previous one, but this way kids have reason to do remediate work and learn what they need. I also take the only the last grade. Even if student did worse 2nd time – I take 2nd grade. Everyone is warned about it and some choose not to take chances.
· I will change grading scale. I will try my best to assign total 12 point work wther it is a homework or a test. Right now I give more problems than are needed to determine if student learned required skill because of the usual 60-100 passing scale. If student makes 2 mistakes on 5 questions test then he/she gets almost F which is not fair because those 2 questions were the most challenging. I do not mind if student solved 4 out 12 problems correctly without any help, notes and hints, and gets lowest D-, because he/she shows knowledge of the basics for that standard, but cannot apply them (that is why other problems are not solved). I will collect only 5 homework assignments a day in each class rotating student’s turns as randomly as possible. The highest score on late assignment is 3 out 12 (F).There will be less grades in the grade book and the final grade will be an average of all graded assignments. This might seem as an easy grading system but it is possible to fail if you are clueless in the subject matter. Some of my students right now would continue failing with this grading, but some would be rewarded for their abilities to perform. In the end I understand – no matter what grading scale and system I use, students who are willing to work and learn will succeed and those who are lazy will continue to struggle.
· I will implement some of the classroom rules from Ron Clark book in my classroom. I hope we will choose few to implement school-wide.
I have many ideas from meetings and blog communication with all our ec staff. I hope to have enough energy, will power and commitment to implement them. I think this course was very interesting and thought provoking.
Sincerely thank you.
Lyuda
Lyuda said ....
ReplyDeleteI agree with Michelle about homework assignments. I have the same mixed filling about grading all of them. I end up grading almost every set and every paper.
I think we need to do it because we use scale 60-100 passing and tests being weighed much higher than homework. By grading large part of the assignments we create a bulk pool of points to level out rear test/quiz scores. I don’t know about other classes but I have the most 5 tests/quizzes in a quarter. Should the final grade be the average of those 5 scores?
Lyuda said ....
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jerry C. about district-wide grading.
It would be convenient for a student to have the same grading through all classes but every subject is different and has different components.
I understand that math is the least favorite subject for most people because it seems to be the most boring, least connected to live and there are very few choices for students to make about what they might learn today or tomorrow. I would like to change that but don’t know how. I will try to use Branda’s idea about skyping to communicate with other schools (may be even to have competition between classes)
I have learned that everyone has a lot of wonderful ideas and suggestions about grading. While a formal system of grading may make the process seem easier, we truly do need to look at every student individually. They may have retained all of the information taught but are not able to show that in certain types of assessments due to the type of "learner" they are. This is where our flexibility needs to be apparent in order to support all types of student learning.
ReplyDeleteI think that some grading systems need to change. If children are falling behind, could it be due to the way they are being graded? Maybe they are not really behind but are portrayed that way due to assessment and grading that is not conducive to their learning style. It sounds like many teachers have already taken the step to include their students in developing assessments so we are already on the right track.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Renee in the use of checklists at the lower elementary level. We use them in preschool and are able to add comments. I also add a section of specific skills to work on which also lets them know what they can work on at home with their child/children. For some of the children, I have been using rubrics also for specific skills, which are easy to track and share with the parents.
Julie said this perfectly...each child may be at a different level and it is our job to figure out their learning style and take them from where they are and move them up on the continuum. I believe this to be the case at any age level if it is feasible.
One of the things I enjoy about my job is I get to sit in on classes in other subject areas and get to see different teaching styles all of the time. I seen things that I would never do and things that I think are the neatest things that I've never thought of. The same goes for the information we have reviewed in this book. In my opinion we have to give grades to motivate most students. I think of myself as a high schooler and I put a lot more effort into my work because I knew I needed good grades. My motivation was the grade. Now, as an adult my motivation is what I want to learn based upon my experiences in life. Most students do no have that internal motivation when they are younger because they really don't know what they will need to be successful, and unfortunately they do not believe us. The book raised questions for all of us and got us thinking and discussing. Whether we change our own personal grading styles is up to each one of us. I know some things I will change and I think those things are for the better and as a result of these meetings.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Julie that we need more collaboration with other teachers. I also agree with Mr. Green in that fixing up our school is something that we should all want to do and take pride in doing. I would volunteer whenever possible to help with outside work or inside work to make our school brighter and more welcoming for staff and students.
ReplyDelete